tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post7674269023334879149..comments2023-05-15T01:25:47.032-07:00Comments on Fullbright: WagerSteve gaynorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516595172941914708noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-52643063349465740852009-02-19T11:42:00.000-08:002009-02-19T11:42:00.000-08:00I think it is important to point out that people a...I think it is important to point out that people are changing.<BR/><BR/>100 years ago virtually no one was literate. now, even outside of the first world the vast majority of us are.<BR/><BR/>50 years ago virtually no one could type well. now, even outside of the first world the vast majority are at least comfortable sitting at a keyboard, and many of us have attained a skill level above that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-36504958068780067052009-02-19T10:08:00.000-08:002009-02-19T10:08:00.000-08:00I'd love to take your wager, but I don't think you...I'd love to take your wager, but I don't think you're actually making one. You claim that video games won't become culturally relevant, and then in three addendums to your wager, you explain why valid arguments that video games do speak to the culture are not related to your original premise.<BR/><BR/>Video games, by their nature, are games. Games are either leisure activities (usually) or Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313549552758550046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-18848233136405133182009-02-19T00:28:00.000-08:002009-02-19T00:28:00.000-08:00Novels entirely had to overcome that barrier. All ...Novels entirely had to overcome that barrier. All throughout the Victorian era there were people freaking out when people walked in on them reading, and trying to sell whatever-it-was as a valid, scholarly tome, because nobody wanted to be caught reading a Novel, because Novels were for women and those of feeble intellect. <BR/><BR/>It may take more than fifty years before anyone starts getting Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-15515770233697895852008-02-21T05:03:00.000-08:002008-02-21T05:03:00.000-08:00re: e: it's a page from Acme Novelty Library #18, ...re: e: it's a page from Acme Novelty Library #18, by Chris Ware.Steve gaynorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516595172941914708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-43904427295751811342008-02-20T12:37:00.000-08:002008-02-20T12:37:00.000-08:00From what comic is that panel graphic taken from? ...From what comic is that panel graphic taken from? (The one with the boy and the landlord's daughter--I have to find out the ending!)<BR/><BR/>~eAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-68424756094395915992008-02-19T16:52:00.000-08:002008-02-19T16:52:00.000-08:00"Halo 3 and World of Warcraft are not culturally r..."Halo 3 and World of Warcraft are not culturally relevant? Motherfucking Mario is not culturally relevant? Mario is an icon."<BR/><BR/>Motherfucking Mario is less of an icon than motherfucking Spiderman. And nobody cares about motherfucking Spiderman except when they make a motherfucking movie out of him.<BR/><BR/>And please, people, don't go down the road of 'arent we talking about it now LOL'. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-69276589962530647052008-02-19T15:51:00.000-08:002008-02-19T15:51:00.000-08:00The mode of expression in literature is an interac...The mode of expression in literature is an interactive system too: readers bring to a work of literature their own socio-historical associations of words that are in constant dialogue with the words in the text and how they are used in relationship to one another.<BR/><BR/>"Wares comics require physical and mental investment by the reader: one has to turn the entire book round in circles to viewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-72715650662106361222008-02-19T11:40:00.000-08:002008-02-19T11:40:00.000-08:00To assume that video games don't at least have the...To assume that video games don't at least have the potential to become pop-culture icons is absurd. Super Mario brothers was a pop-culture icon 15 years ago, Halo is a pop culture icon now. Hell, we've had games that are far, far less accessible than Halo 3 end up as pop culture icons. Dungeons and Dragons, poker, the rubix cube, solitaire, hearts, chess, checkers...<BR/><BR/>The beauty of a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-87143064834660661212008-02-19T11:24:00.000-08:002008-02-19T11:24:00.000-08:00re: manga: Yes, I am familiar with the cultural re...re: manga: Yes, I am familiar with the cultural relevance of manga in Japan. It's a wonderful medium that grew up with Japan's baby boom following WW2, and has blossomed into an element of everyday life there. The variety of art styles and subject matter is unprecedented, depicting everything from young boys' adventure stories to soap opera-style dramas for housewives and niche volumes on playingSteve gaynorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516595172941914708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-12942023594767849392008-02-19T11:14:00.000-08:002008-02-19T11:14:00.000-08:00Whilst I approve of the debate that this article h...Whilst I approve of the debate that this article has stirred up, I can't agree with the argument posited by Mister Gaynor.<BR/><BR/>In terms of accessibility I refuse to believe that, for example, modern art is more accessible than video games. The training required to understand the concepts that inform the creation of modern art reduces it to an esoteric circle jerk - without the education to Apolloinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04709549776758677190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-39476804242715770462008-02-19T09:55:00.000-08:002008-02-19T09:55:00.000-08:00re: James: does your mother still play video games...re: James: does your mother still play video games now?Steve gaynorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516595172941914708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-19557861826602933492008-02-19T09:48:00.000-08:002008-02-19T09:48:00.000-08:00I think this is a bit silly to try and base an arg...I think this is a bit silly to try and base an argument off of stuff you state as fact.<BR/><BR/>you cant possibly tell me that the barrier of entry is too high.<BR/><BR/>years ago, way way back when nes was king, and snes was on its way, my mother and i used to play othello fairly regularly. she never touched my nintendo, assuming it was just a kids toy.<BR/><BR/>then she noticed othello for theAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-55067449051106757342008-02-19T06:41:00.001-08:002008-02-19T06:41:00.001-08:00In My mind you have already lost your bet. Brain ...In My mind you have already lost your bet. Brain Age games have created more commentary across a wide range of media than most movies. They have implemented the use of it at elder care facilities to jog the mind and improve wellness. It may be a needle in a haystack, but it is only recently that gaming has become mainstream. Movies have been mainstream now for well over 75 years. I would sayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-56770978409333356152008-02-19T06:41:00.000-08:002008-02-19T06:41:00.000-08:00Just to throw my 2 cents in the wishing well here ...Just to throw my 2 cents in the wishing well here (and apologies if this has been said before)... Throughout reading the article and its ensuing discussion, one particular thing stood out to me. And that is that measuring video games' "cultural relevance" on the same scales as you would books/comics/movies/<BR/>music/what-have-you is hardly a fair comparison. Video games are a whole new form of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-12052901049363760412008-02-19T02:33:00.000-08:002008-02-19T02:33:00.000-08:00Hmm, not sure whether to take your bet or not. As ...Hmm, not sure whether to take your bet or not. As things currently stand, I think your assesment of games and comics is pretty much spot on, although as others have pointed out, you're looking at things from a very US-centric perspective (particularly in relation to comics). However, does where something has come from dictate where it's going to go? I'm not so sure. <BR/><BR/>First of all, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-46218556684899402822008-02-19T02:21:00.000-08:002008-02-19T02:21:00.000-08:00Games cannot be taken seriously (and therefore can...Games cannot be taken seriously (and therefore cannot become a "significant form of cultural discourse") by anyone who has not been raised to have what I would call "gaming literacy."<BR/><BR/>To make a simple analogy, novels wouldn't exactly be popular (or significant) to anyone who was not literate. To attempt to convince an illiterate person of the joys of reading a good novel is likely an mvarischettihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11630291976037863843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-1179952869078176002008-02-19T01:41:00.000-08:002008-02-19T01:41:00.000-08:00I strongly agree with what FP said, and would like...I strongly agree with what FP said, and would like to add a point of my own.<BR/><BR/>The comparison to a sport is accurate. This can be most easily seen in Korea, where Starcraft teams train mercilessly, but there are many examples. Fatal1ty is well-known in the world of first-person shooters. There are Counter-Strike tournaments, Halo tournaments, and now a World of Warcraft Arena league Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15125239213661872333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-3236741937836846922008-02-18T22:57:00.000-08:002008-02-18T22:57:00.000-08:00I will first admit that I am already repeating a b...I will first admit that I am already repeating a bit of megalanzero has said but he is correct on this point. <BR/>Books are quietly leaving the cultural scene. Furthermore, the movie going experience is also changing. Movie theaters are also becoming an obsolete part of our cultural experience. All this leads up to the inevitability of home electronic entertainment dominating our cultural Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-81375742913588973542008-02-18T22:50:00.000-08:002008-02-18T22:50:00.000-08:00I'm quite disheartened to say that I agree with a ...I'm quite disheartened to say that I agree with a lot of what you've written here. Video games do suffer under the veneer of adolescent male fantasy - even when they do accomplish something in terms of gameplay and interactivity that is more meaningful than "shoot", "drive", and "solve puzzle".<BR/><BR/>I will say this - video games are NOT an intrinsically more complex form of cultural Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-35972264638765400012008-02-18T22:22:00.000-08:002008-02-18T22:22:00.000-08:00One thing you're not taking into account is that b...One thing you're not taking into account is that books are increasingly being marginalized themselves. Literacy rates are high, but actual reading is also down. <BR/>Yes, the people can read, but <B>they don't want to</B>. At least among my generation, it feels like it's going to be a group that vegs out in front of the TV when they get home, just watching hours and hours of television rather Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-52586422558579598012008-02-18T22:06:00.000-08:002008-02-18T22:06:00.000-08:00Two years ago I was in a mall in Portland, wearing...Two years ago I was in a mall in Portland, wearing a WOW Horde T-shirt. A teenager saw me and yelled out "For the Horde!" The businessman on the escalator responded the same. Several responded for the alliance, including a mother with her kids.<BR/><BR/>A couple of us shared a coffee, and I still raid to this day with the mother who just happened to be on my server.<BR/><BR/>I guess it could Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-48607004056135006152008-02-18T21:29:00.000-08:002008-02-18T21:29:00.000-08:00I think that the comparison of Books with Movies a...I think that the comparison of Books with Movies and Videogames is a best a poor one. I see a constant comparison with entertainment and depiction of a passive audience. It is with this thread that I have to take issue.<BR/><BR/>Quote:<BR/>“And I'll bet you that video games will never become a significant form of cultural discourse the way that novels and film have.”<BR/><BR/>The thesis of thisFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10571282390270872300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-20543737058657776492008-02-18T20:33:00.000-08:002008-02-18T20:33:00.000-08:00Actually, I would have to say that games are alrea...Actually, I would have to say that games are already very culturally relevant. I was researching them the other day (waiting for my ps3 to come into the local game store) and I found out that the ps2 system alone sold over 120 million units, and you can still find it on the shelves! Even if you assume that some of those were replacements for lost, stolen or broken consoles, that's still over Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03913041283627426371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-39018894058166641282008-02-18T20:20:00.000-08:002008-02-18T20:20:00.000-08:00I think your perception may be skewed a bit. Once...I think your perception may be skewed a bit. Once the current crop of teens / twenty somethings matures over the course of the next couple decades, I would guess BOTH video games and comics becoming more widely accepted cultural pieces. Consider how awkward using a computer is to most people over the age of 40-50 (unless they had a job specifically working with them) yet teens and such now are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20951746.post-39530151930866646622008-02-18T19:43:00.000-08:002008-02-18T19:43:00.000-08:00To Jeff Hollingsworth, who avers that GTA is "infa...To Jeff Hollingsworth, who avers that GTA is "infantile" - in the Dr. Freud sort of way: if overt swearing, coarse joking, and (gasp) violence are "infantile" and BY THEMSELVES are enough to write off the entire gaming medium as culturally irrelevant, perhaps you can share your opinion of Lenny Bruce, or Charles Bukowski? <BR/><BR/>I don't much care for hip-hop or rap, but that doesn't mean I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com