Comments on Fullbright: Points

The idea of a point-based reality has been percola...

2010-02-28T16:40:24.500-08:00

The idea of a point-based reality has been percolating in my brain for awhile now, and it's refreshing to see Schell start a really provocative conversation on this topic that seems to pique many people's interest.

I highly recommend the book "Glasshouse" by Charles Stross as an engrossing look into such a scenario. It made me question many of the little things I do

Harvey: my expectation is that that would be chari...

2010-02-27T20:07:07.664-08:00

Harvey: my expectation is that that would be charitable hopefulness on your part. If not, then Schell was being exceptionally subtle in the writing and presentation of his talk.

Reward fatigue is on the way. The more games I p...

2010-02-27T17:04:52.869-08:00

Reward fatigue is on the way.

The more games I play, the more I notice I'm being drawn in to play more than I naturally would. I come out of those experiences feeling cheated of my time as I put up with rushed out controls schemes and awkward plot lines, whispering to myself that it'll all be worth it for the gamerpoints. It never is. My massive gamerscore is an indelible mark

I just assumed Schell meant this as a Swiftian &qu...

2010-02-27T16:07:23.880-08:00

I just assumed Schell meant this as a Swiftian "Modest Proposal."

As a possible future, it's only as inevitable ...

2010-02-26T21:39:10.156-08:00

As a possible future, it's only as inevitable as we, the people who make games and comment on cultural development, decide it is. I hate when people raise the idea of these developments as something we have no control over, that we should simply submit to now.

Games can be so good at helping people learn how to think and act autonomously; it's disgraceful that we assent

In case you didn't see Jesper Juul's response, it's got some good research in it. Basically, he cites psych studies that show exogenous rewards can help motivate things you don't want to do, but actually demotivate enjoyable tasks.

Rewards recontextualize motives. It's likely one will

Steve: Sure, the technical aspects are tricky for...

2010-02-25T09:22:58.252-08:00

Steve: Sure, the technical aspects are tricky for some things. But I wouldn't underestimate the increasingly mobile, connected world we find ourselves in. There are already people doing this for location: http://foursquare.com/ (Earning points and badges for checking in from various locations via GPS-enabled phone. There's even a King of the Hill game encouraging people to spend more

Simon: I think there is a clear distinction there....

2010-02-25T08:47:33.587-08:00

Simon: I think there is a clear distinction there. For one, you're describing systems that take place within a self-contained experience. Schell really is talking about how the most manipulative aspects of the phenomena he highlights can be applied to everyday life, outside of a clearly-defined frame.

Considering the merits of these kinds of grindable systems within a

I'm not sure it's so easy to separate the ...

2010-02-25T03:40:33.640-08:00

I'm not sure it's so easy to separate the two, Steve.

There's a sense in which external reward systems are, in many cases, an externalising of manipulative design that has been present within videogames forever.

How many RPGs reward mere perseverance (a.k.a. repeat patronage) over mastery? If I play a game to unlock a new outfit, or raise a character level

Johnnemann: As far as stopping this inevitable fut...

2010-02-24T22:05:09.858-08:00

Johnnemann: As far as stopping this inevitable future... I don't know if it's actually that inevitable. I mean, Schell painted an intentionally hyperbolic version of the scenario, but I really doubt we're ever going to get near this level of permeation into everyday life-- we could have TVs and internet connections in our refrigerators now if we wanted, but people don't actually

There was also a Jonathan Blow talk about achievem...

2010-02-24T18:37:15.413-08:00

There was also a Jonathan Blow talk about achievements and MMO-like reward structures as the "McDonald's of games" (http://braid-game.com/news/?p=129), and there's a scheduled Chris Hecker talk at GDC about the bad side of achievements (I am hoping to go). I think there will be a fair bit of backlash against the grim future Schell points to.

And make no mistake, it

I'm not sure that Schell gives the topic justi...

2010-02-24T16:14:54.547-08:00

I'm not sure that Schell gives the topic justice, but I think you may be overreacting to the basic implications. (I think Jane McGonigal does a better job of explaining the concept.)

The idea is (hopefully) not to game-ify everything for the sake of games/addiction, but to bring game design concepts back to reality and apply them to solving real problems.

I think when

That is a very cool walk through a potential (inev...

2010-02-24T15:45:31.846-08:00

That is a very cool walk through a potential (inevitable?) future of social games. It's definitely a powerful force, this psychological manipulation, and it brings up serious questions about the morality of using them (questions that will of course be ignored).

My take on it is that it will become so saturated and ubiquitous that people get inured to it and it will become less

Woh, woh, woh--maybe I need to re-listen to the ta...

2010-02-24T15:13:26.462-08:00

Woh, woh, woh--maybe I need to re-listen to the talk again, but I'm pretty sure Schell wasn't being prescriptive in his description of this new (and scary) direction for game design. If anything, it seemed like he was more trying to reveal to us the road we're heading down so that we as game designers can make informed decisions about it.

My first thought was that this could be a very str...

2010-02-24T14:03:03.259-08:00

My first thought was that this could be a very strong potential tool for incentivising the use of things like public transport, recycling, brushing your teeth and so on. But I inmediately started to cringe at the "tricks" companies could pull off, especially in the advertising space. Boy, if you thought ads were annoying just wait a couple of years! *cringe*
But then again, this

I agree as well. After listening to the talk my th...

2010-02-24T09:06:08.914-08:00

I agree as well. After listening to the talk my thought was: In Schell's future, who is going to have the mental fortitude to resist external rewards and act based on internal rewards?

My other thought was that I don't think we want to be playing all games all the time. It seems a bit stressful to me.